Cornbread Apple Pie and Agency

Fist of, my apologies to anyone who got “Rick Rolled”, I couldn’t help myself.  My wife was pissed.

 

Now on to business before I fall asleep.  I have not had any time to post this entire week. It has been crazy.

Man, so much to say so little blog space. I was happy to read your blog.  I was like, “ Yes! Yes! Yes! NO! NO!  and I’m spent.”  At some times I felt you had me…and I was cheering you on…….. and then you lost me.

 

I was first impressed that you do not fall into the category of what I call “Bumper Sticker Politics”.  You know these people.  They are usually about 2 hours behind their favorite TV pundit, spouting their party’s daily catch phrase. (You hear me you Jon Stewart fans.) You did bring up the “I can see Russia from my house” comment, this is fine given it is not the rock that you are building your house on.  Sadly most people’s point of view doesn’t go beyond the last politically insignificant celebrity rant.  I mean, I do hope to someday have the infinite wisdom of people like Lindsey Lohan and  Matt Damon. However I still haven’t formed an opinion myself because Pauly Shore hasn’t told me what to think yet.  Come on!

Agency, right on….people should be able to choose!  However you said, “….our attitude while …….being forced……is ours alone.”  And I feel that, that in it self should not be just mentioned in passing.  Next I believe in equality but not in the liberal sense of the word because it usually is confused with the crab theory, where we all have to sit in the bucket until we “all” decide to work hard enough to get out.  Sorry, back to the point.  You said,“ people guilty of repeated anti-social and criminal behavior can be proven un trustworthy”  Although I believe this, one has to fear who gets to make the decision.  And once precedence is set it could get very slippery from there.  (need further discussion)

 

As for forgiveness, I agree.  I do find that forgiveness is sometimes….er  often….um   completely…missing in politics.  Everyone thinks they have taken the moral highroad on this but…no they haven’t.

 

As for the Law of Consecration,  “DD” you deserve a cookie…Most people don’t take into consideration that the law of consecration is Voluntary.  As it should be.  One point to consider, in the law of consecration they would never give me 100 acres to work, or whole office full of dental equipment.  If they did I would be the first to say that is not an inspired action. I would not have a clue what to do with it.  But that is not equality.  I thought the law of consecration was going to give everyone a plot of ground and a dental chair.  Not So!

I believe that if “taking only what you need and passing the rest on to those in need” was an eternal principle.  Then I would contend that when we all die and hopefully gain all that the Father hath.  That we should only take what we need and pass the rest down a kingdom or two, dare I say three.  I don’t recall that Sunday school lesson.  I know some people that got jipped out of a body that could go for that.  I think the Lord helps those that help themselves.  Remember the Lord does teach that there are wicked and slothful servants.

 

As for the abortion thing…...well our beliefs are closer than you think.

I believe in a woman’s right to choose. If the child is a product of forced sexual abuse or a threat to the mother’s life. The baby (who is a living child) very sadly becomes a victim of that circumstance.  But this is where it ends.  In your argument you imply that a few abortions of convenience are screwing things up for rape victims everywhere.  I would ask for statistics on this but I don’t think that a true number exists.  I went to high school I know that when you forge a note from home to get out of school, you never write down your actual reason for missing class.  There for I am sure that rape is a very common reason for doing it however, if you were to contrast it to actual charges filed, you would see another picture.  For this reason I wouldn’t trust a lot of statistical data.

Beyond that my personal opinion is that the “choice” needs to be made before the pants hit the floor.  “I couldn’t help myself” doesn’t fly….

 

This leads me to gun control.  When was the last time you heard “I couldn’t help myself” offered up as a defense in a murder case?  That sounds like jail time to me.  And when someone attacks another person and the attacker is shot and killed.  I am not aware of someone truly acting in defense being imprisoned.  Note that when ever a body is found you can always count on a criminal investigation and in most cases a trial.  This is not how abortion is treated.  Abortion as a form of birth control is wrong and I feel you would agree. I feel this logic lends itself to the abortion debate.     

And NO I don’t believe in further gun control because it only keeps them out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

 

Anyways…. I have more to say but I tried to stay on point. It is late and I am going to bed.

 

Goodnight,   and God bless the United States……… all 57 of them.

 

Later.

Palin Video

To further illustrate my point I have included a video clip.
click here.

Enjoy

You beat me to the punch but I might just punch you in the beets. (Ha!)

As I suspected, when I first approached you with the idea of this experiment, this is going to be quite entertaining and give me much to think about. In the interest of maintaining our friendship while allowing for a well thought out debate let me first say I appreciate your willingness to put yourself out here like we are and I value your opinion and intelligence. I respect your occupation and honestly believe that through the efforts of yourself and millions like you, owners and managers of small to medium sized businesses, our nation benefits from a strong and resilient vertebral column.

On to more interesting things.

Regarding whether or not this will include my "top ten reasons for loving Obama" I will try to get them in here, but if the witching hour approaches and I am still mired in my opening statement then I will put that particular project off to another day. When I logged on this evening I had the intention of making my initial decree and laying a groundwork for our first topic of discussion only to be pleasantly surprised by your first post of any length. Lovely. Let's start there then.

I was pleased to see you think values form your opinions which in turn lead to your political sympathies--I tend to think this leads to a better source of opinion and a more solid foundation for logic. With the previous in mind I would like to state some of my values at this time which will present my own foundation for opinion:

Agency

• I believe all people are given agency, the right/freedom to choose as we wish, as our most fundamental and inalienable--perhaps primeval is the correct word--prerogative.


• All people may not have the ability or disposition to act as we would in every situation but our inward response, the very nature with which we perform our actions, our attitude while acting, or even while being forced to act, is ours alone.

Equity

• Simply by nature of our humanity all people ought to be considered equally until proven unworthy of equitable consideration. By unworthy I do not mean that since I differ in opinion with Duane then he is no longer worthy of one thing or another. By unworthy I mean that through repeated gross anti-social or criminal behavior one might prove oneself no longer trustworthy.


• By all people I mean all people.

Forgiveness

• All people everywhere deserve forgiveness at many points throughout our lives--which forgiveness only comes from one source (God), only by one means (His Son), and only if we go through the ofttimes painful process of asking for it.


• Forgiveness is essential for both those who've wronged and been wronged and allows for that refreshing and fulfilling restart resembling, only in an emotional/spiritual sense, that moment after a severe sunburn when you've peeled off the sheet of dead skin cells to expose the raw, tender, sensitive, and completely new skin underneath.

Well, there are three of my values anyway. I'm not saying they're my top three but they're all I felt like bringing up tonight. So, now, let's get to how agency applies to politics.

I stated, under the heading agency above, that agency is the freedom to choose. Duane has stated that he thinks socialism would require everyone to hit the same mediocre level. Duane has a point: when socialism is forced on people it seems to tap the human spirit and breed mediocrity. Even when a large number of a given populace tries to buy into the same socialist order it still seems to end up as a less than ideal society. Mediocrity is not the goal of socialism as it is defined, but I am now finished defending it as I am not a socialist.

One point I would ask Duane to think about is the law of consecration. As I understand it the law of consecration would be the ultimate socialist order as it would require all who follow it to consecrate all they have to the church, taking only what they need, and letting the rest be passed along to others who need it. Hmm. Seems pretty socialist to me. Yet, I think Duane purports to believe in this law. I. Am. Getting. Confused.

So, what's the difference between the law of consecration and socialism? I bet you've guessed: Agency! Wahoo!

Where else, one might ask, does agency play a role in democratic politics that differs from those of the pachydermal persuasion? Well, let's consider the abortion issue. Do we dare hit such a subversive and dangerous topic as this so early in the game? Why not. We're mormons after all. We are brave and jump at the chance to clarify church position even when it exposes our own ignorance. (I love LDS stereotypes--they bring a little devisive tear of condescending joy to my eye.)

So, the official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be read here. I argue for a woman's right to choose when it comes to the issue of abortion not because I approve of abortions as happy, pretty, fluffy, harmless little things, but because I do not feel comfortable with a government mandating that women must be forced to complete a pregnancy that may endanger/kill them, was forced upon them, is the result of incest, or will result in some other outcome the church considers justifiable in considering an abortion.

I remember having quite a heated argument with Danny one afternoon, at Capriotti's I believe, that devolved to the point I was labeled un-Christian. I don't think my cheese steak tasted the same after that, but I stuck to my guns because I cannot, in good conscience, agree with legislation that forces a choice upon a woman because someone else (some neo-con twit with the disposition and complexion of that ugly dude in Men In Black . . . no, not Will Smith the other agent whose name has a junior in it and I'm not going to google right now), who likely is not even aware of the emotional-spiritual-physical torment this woman is going through, arbitrarily determined abortions are icky. Oh man. I don't think any liberal in the world would argue that an abortion is a pleasant walk along a wooded trail accompanied by refreshing citrus beverages and light conversation about puppies and kittens and puppens, which everyone knows are those charming little puppy/kitten hybrids with the personality and melodius voice of Angela Lansberry (sp?), not to mention her lovely cankles. . . yet I digress. Puppens? What the. . . .

Alright, so let us consider the abortion issue as compared to the conservative point of view on the argument about gun control. (I actually do not agree with a whole lot of gun control legislation. I do believe in the right to bear arms.) Should all people everywhere be forced to turn in their guns because there are some idiots out there who abuse them? No. Nor should all women everywhere who've been raped be forced to complete their unwanted pregnancies because there are a few idiots out there performing and receiving abortions of convenience. People should be allowed to have agency and make choices for ourselves. We don't always choose right. We often choose wrong to various degrees. We are all human and we all deserve to choose even if we chance to do so to our detriment or that of others at times--I am afraid that's just part of the human condition and no matter how hard we try we all screw up and need forgiveness. Isn't it wonderful?

So there's one reason, at least, that I am choosing Obama--he allows women to choose on the issue of abortion. It's not the prettiest car on the lot, but it sure beats being forced into a shady clunker like McCain, which could likely crank out its last any second, and that insufferable know-nothing windbag Palin. To quote Tina Fey acting as Palin: "I can see Russia from my house!" Hee hee. Man that was classic. Here's the real Palin link btw. Hilarious.

My opening statement

First off I will make no apologies for my spelling or grammar.  I will type fast and if my fingers hit the right keys..... bonus.  If not... i figure since you are smart enough to be a democrat you should be smart enough to read my republican word scramble.

Second, I would like to say that I believe I have a core sense of values which in turn gives me a political point of view. Notice i did not say that i champion causes that make me side with the Republican Party.  I beleive too many people get tied up in "I think NASCAR needs government subsidies." or "I want to save the endangerd Eastern Wasatch Mountain 3 toed Yak" type causes that they miss the big picture.  

I also think that most people truly believe that they are looking out for the countries best interests.

That being said, the big picture, and where we as humans will hop off this merry go round is the biggest hot button issue in my mind. Is the goal to get everyone to that even "everyone is the same" society where we all run around in silver jump suits with cool moonboots?  \I am not a fan of having the same Dumb and Dumber bowl cut.  

Socialism is not my bag baby.  If it were I would be out fighting for the Superbowl to be renamed the "Good try everyone bowl".  Where there are no winners or losers and they melt down the superbowl rings and trophy and give everyone who played in the entire league that year a really cool comemorative coin.  LAME!!!!! Life needs its point and counterpoints, wins and losses, sadness and joy, etc.

Now you are probably saying oh you evil capitalist.  But hold on a minute.  My occupation is tied to the construction industry.  So needless to say the economy is really bending me over.  I have kids to feed,mortgage and bills to pay and yes a wife that the idea of me "chillin at home" doesnt fly with.  So everyday my alarm goes off and i have a decision to make.  Go to work and continue the fight or sleep in and stay home all day.  Well i choose to go to work.  Why????? Well depending on the day it is either Dreams of Success or on other days Fear of Failure.  Well guess what my silvery snowsuit wearing comrade, no matter which one it is..... it works. 

So enter socialism.  If the state is going to screw me if i attain dreams of success, well I'm not going to try as hard because i really dont want to work super hard and make sacrifices only to enter that tax bracket of death.  As a matter of fact,under socialism, if i really get my lazy on i can cross the finish line of failure,  and still enter into the kingdom of governmental assistance.  So socialism breeds a land of underacheivers.  You dont have to look much further than some of our socialist friends to see how far they have come.(Ive seen the Bourne Identity Series..... russian cars suck)  

So this leads me to Obama.  When anyone stands up and says they have all the answers to my problems, I cover my wallet with my hand and get ready to run.  When he stands up and makes promises that he will care for me and make sure my house cant be taken or that as a business owner i cant terminate the lazy and cut back on wages to keep myself in business that scares me.

I believe in self sufficiency. I think there are natural laws in place to motivate and push people.  Never have i heard such a great tale of "Choose me and I will see to it that no one fails." since before the world was.  John Kerry's "I have a plan" speeches came pretty close though.

I wrote a whole lot more tonight than i was planning.  But it should give us a good starting place.

I look forward to reading your "top ten reasons I love Obama" post.

I still love ya you hippie.

Later

Yes, I guess it is on.

Republicans: So militant.

It's on!

This should be interesting.